do all potential converts have to take part in field service before baptism?
and do new members generally try to bring in their friends and family or do they generally keep their religion to themselves?
what do pioneers do if they're going door to door and chance on someone they know or work with in their personal lives?
But where in the Bible does it state that all baptized members are ordained ministers? It's a concept I just don't find. Also, what of bishops, deacons, priests and seventy mentioned in the New Testament? These all appear to be offices within the church, yet we don't know a lot about them. Do these offices need ordination and, if so, who gets to ordain whom?
Elders seem to be an internal police force, as they evoke fear in some members.
do all potential converts have to take part in field service before baptism?
and do new members generally try to bring in their friends and family or do they generally keep their religion to themselves?
what do pioneers do if they're going door to door and chance on someone they know or work with in their personal lives?
Well, that's incredible. I have family who are members but I'm not sure how active they are. Preaching to a colleague would be did difficult and I imagine it would be awkward.
Just out of curiosity, if someone knows (or can ask an elder), where in the Bible does it say that ordinary members of the church are supposed to do missionary work?
I see that the apostles preached the gospel. And the seventy also. But not the saints as a whole. If they had, there would have been far more deaths (as martyrs) in the first century. I'd also like to hear where every baptized member is an ordained minister of the gospel.
If that's true, then any of you active members could baptize anyone you wished without permission. You could baptize your wife, kids, anyone.
do all potential converts have to take part in field service before baptism?
and do new members generally try to bring in their friends and family or do they generally keep their religion to themselves?
what do pioneers do if they're going door to door and chance on someone they know or work with in their personal lives?
Do all potential converts have to take part in field service before baptism? And do new members generally try to bring in their friends and family or do they generally keep their religion to themselves? What do Pioneers do if they're going door to door and chance on someone they know or work with in their personal lives? I mean, you knock on a door and your boss or coworker answers in a bathrobe and a t-shirt.
Has this ever happened to you? What would you say?
And are JWs still pushing bible study? Lately they just give me some magazines and leave. I notice that many come in two cars. They head out and around noon-thirty, they all head back to the cars and I think they go to lunch.
They used to ask for donations for their magazines years ago. Who pays for the magazines they distribute?
i don't mean to be blasphemous to the real god.
i just don't think the god of the bible is our actual god.
and i think the god of the bible is not very bright.. i was thinking about the flood the other day.
That you don't believe in any of the fables makes it impossible to to understand them. In the case of Adam and Eve, what if the fall of man was supposed to happen? If God knows all things from the beginning, it stands to reason God knew there would be a fall. He put an innocent couple in a garden setting with a malicious mastermind. In their innocent state, Adam and Eve would have been ignorant, knowing neither good nor evil. What would man have to gain from the fall? Everything. Going from a state where there is no growth, no progression, to a mortal environment. In mortality his very soul could be forged in the flames of adversity. But it was a decision man had to make. And through Christ, man gained the ability to become like God. (See I John 3:2) This he never could have achieved in a state of innocence. His body had no glory and he had no potential.
Next you mentioned Armageddon. But keep in mind that the JWs have a specialized interpretation of this great battle that correlates with no other Christian faith. In actual prophecy, Armageddon is simply a great battle between Muslim nations and Israel in the latter days. (See Ezekiel 38-39, Zechariah 12, 14, Revelation 11) On the verge of destruction, Jerusalem is saved when Jesus returns in power and glory to rule the world. It is not some event where fire falls from the sky and everyone but JWs die horrible deaths.
You're right about man degenerating at the end of the thousand years. When Satan is released at the end of that time, he will gather great numbers of people together in an attempt to wage one final battle, called after the first, Gog and Magog. But unlike the first, God will bring it to a quick end. Then will come the final judgment.
As with any religion, the Bible is open to many views and interpretations. The Jehovah's Witnesses, whatever their intentions, have one of the worst, most narrow theologies of any religion out there. It doesn't teach the love of God or his mercies. Everything is based on discipline, service, not in the form of relief efforts, but in conversion, and in consequences, of which there are many. Nothing is well thought out, so it's not really fair to judge the God of the Bible as seen through JW eyes.
jws like to think they have found the one true religion.
but like so many other religious people, it's usually the religion they were born into, the only religion they know because it's the first one they found or, at the most, one of two or three (typically the second one after they left their first / born-in faith).. the trouble is, there simply isn't enough time to explore and investigate each and everyone of the many thousands of belief systems, religions and sects around the world.. think of it this way: which is the best neighbourhood to live in where you would be most happy and most successful?
not just in the city or even the country you are in, but the entire world.. how would you ever know?
If there is a one true religion, it shouldn't be impossible to find it where it's present. But for most of the world it may be impossible because of religious suppression. Certainly Christianity cannot flourish in China or Muslim countries, so finding it in many countries would not be feasible.
I also don't believe a true church could exist without revelation. If there is no communication with God, there's no point in having a church. But that said, God made man imperfect and subject to error. To think He would condemn a person for not having a Bible Study or "accepting Jesus" by the time they die, however, would be unjust. Calvinists believe God created some people to be exalted on high and other people not to make it. But where's the justice in that? And what justice would there be in throwing an atheist into hell? People say, nah, you're giving people a second chance. No, you give everyone the same chance.
the last time i spoke to my mother, who is a devout jw, she threatened me with typical jw scare tactics telling me how oh so close the end is and how me and my 2 young daughters will be slaughtered by god himself in armageddon.
knowing that this is just a scare tactic, i respectfully listened, then replied that the jw's have wrongfully predicted the end of the world three times and were incorrect, 1914, 1925, 1975. i asked doesn't that make them false prophets?
her response; " no, because the brothers are imperfect and jehovah knew their heart was in a sincere place.
Ummmm...why would God kill your two young daughters? You I can understand. (You're just an old worldly apostate.)
But what's the thinking on killing your daughters?
it was the year 2011. remember that one?
surprise, surprise -- it wasn't one of their predictions.
it was from one of their competitors, harold camping.. "religious leaders sometimes predict tragic worldwide events to warn mankind and gather followers.
The JWs have always left a little wiggle room in its predictions.
Most of the JWs I've spoken to immediately say 1914, adding that no other religion was able to pinpoint that date except them. They were very proud of that accomplishment.
I'm still trying to appreciate the prescience. Perhaps someone could help me.
when i got baptized as a jehovah’s witness in the summer of 83, my honeymoon period lasted about two years before i began to wonder if the society and its adherents were all it claimed to be.
no of the things i encountered for the first few years was really faith shattering, they simply just made me pause and think.
after a short while, i would file those issues in the back of my brain files and move forward.. .
For a moment I thought this was going to be a tale of misappropriated funds.
Here you are collecting money, you see folders. I thought for sure it was going to end up with someone going to prison!
How long after this did you go inactive? With people collecting funds alone, how can they make sure people don't get sticky fingers? (Maybe I should have worded that differently.)
jws like to think they have found the one true religion.
but like so many other religious people, it's usually the religion they were born into, the only religion they know because it's the first one they found or, at the most, one of two or three (typically the second one after they left their first / born-in faith).. the trouble is, there simply isn't enough time to explore and investigate each and everyone of the many thousands of belief systems, religions and sects around the world.. think of it this way: which is the best neighbourhood to live in where you would be most happy and most successful?
not just in the city or even the country you are in, but the entire world.. how would you ever know?
Deegee » The Bible states the soul lives on after death but it also says that the soul dies.
It's all in how one defines "soul" and "die."
Soul usually is the being, as in spirit and body are the soul of man. Die/Death is the separation of body and spirit. The soul dies when the body and spirit are separated. The spirit cannot die or cease to exist. The soul can die a spiritual death, which is the separation of God and man.
jws like to think they have found the one true religion.
but like so many other religious people, it's usually the religion they were born into, the only religion they know because it's the first one they found or, at the most, one of two or three (typically the second one after they left their first / born-in faith).. the trouble is, there simply isn't enough time to explore and investigate each and everyone of the many thousands of belief systems, religions and sects around the world.. think of it this way: which is the best neighbourhood to live in where you would be most happy and most successful?
not just in the city or even the country you are in, but the entire world.. how would you ever know?
Simon » And yet some would have us believe that "God" expects us to find the right one and will kill anyone who doesn't.
Yes, but many would hold that that would make God unjust. Why would God "kill" anyone who doesn't find His true religion? If God is bound by by a law of justice, He would have to judge people by what was in their hearts. Very few Christians believe that people "sleep" when they die. Origen, who literally had one foot in the first century church and the other in the later church, when trying to recall the early teachings of the church, wrote: "After death, I think the saints go to Paradise, a place of learning or school of the spirits, in which everything they learned on Earth would be made clear to them." This is actually consistent with countless near death experiences, and of the many I've read, not ONE of the people who had them did anyone ever mention being asked which church they belonged to. But they did undergo "life reviews," in which they learned a great deal about the lives they lived.
I think even atheists receive a fair shake if their beliefs are sincerely held. It would be a narrow, vindictive God who would expect a person to be a member of a particular church, or else.
